Devuan logs - #99, boring messages

Message sent to [email protected], Daniel Reurich <[email protected]>:

Subject: bug#99: devuan-installer: the installed devuan system is not fully accessible
Reply-To: Gregory Nowak <[email protected]>, [email protected]
Resent-From: Gregory Nowak <[email protected]>
Resent-To: [email protected]
Resent-CC: Daniel Reurich <[email protected]>
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From: Gregory Nowak <[email protected]>
To: Devuan Bug Tracking System <[email protected]>
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2017 19:36:22 -0700

Package: devuan-installer
Severity: important

Dear Maintainer,
this is a migration of:
<https://git.devuan.org/devuan-infrastructure/Installer_Feedback/issues/3>

When the option to install with speech synthesis is chosen by pressing s and enter at the boot prompt, the resulting installed system isn't fully accessible if
the user chose to install using the default devuan desktop environment. Specifically, because the default session manager is slim, the orca screen reader doesn't
activate at the GUI login screen. This is true on both i386, and amd64.

Installing lightdm and lightdm-gtk-greeter is still a useable option in jessie, but I understand that will not be the case in the future. The only other solution in this
+case for now is for the user to run startx by hand to get a GUI console. Another option is to login without speech using slim, once a sighted person has described the login screen, and the blind user has a routine worked out which key strokes to enter, and when in that routine to type in the user name and password. This solution is not ideal, since it requires assistance initially.


-- System Information:
Distributor ID:	Devuan
Description:	Devuan GNU/Linux 1.0 (jessie)
Release:	1.0
Codename:	jessie
Architecture: x86_64

Kernel: Linux 3.16.0-4-amd64 (SMP w/4 CPU cores)
Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash
Init: sysvinit (via /sbin/init)

Message sent:

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From: [email protected] (Devuan bug Tracking System)
To: Gregory Nowak <[email protected]>
Subject: bug#99: Acknowledgement (devuan-installer: the installed devuan system is not fully accessible)
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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References: <[email protected]>
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Reply-To: [email protected]

Thank you for the problem report you have sent regarding Devuan.
This is an automatically generated reply, to let you know your message has
been received.  It is being forwarded to the developers mailing list for
their attention; they will reply in due course.

Your message has been sent to the package maintainer(s):
 Daniel Reurich <[email protected]>

If you wish to submit further information on your problem, please send
it to [email protected] (and *not* to
[email protected]).

Please do not reply to the address at the top of this message,
unless you wish to report a problem with the bug-tracking system.

Your message specified a Severity: in the pseudo-header, but
the severity value important was not recognised.
The default severity normal is being used instead.
The recognised values are: critical, grave, normal, minor, wishlist.

Devuan Bugs Owner
(administrator, Devuan bugs database)

Message received at [email protected]:

Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 21:44:51 +0000
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Message sent to [email protected], [email protected]:

Subject: bug#99: devuan-installer: the installed devuan system is not fully accessible
Reply-To: Mark Hindley <[email protected]>, [email protected]
Resent-From: Mark Hindley <[email protected]>
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Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2020 13:03:14 +0000
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References: <[email protected]>
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2020 12:51:46 +0000
From: Mark Hindley <[email protected]>
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Gregory,

We are preparing the release of beowulf. This is an important issue as far as
I am concerned.

You said you thought lightdm would not still be an option in the future. It certainly
is in beowulf.

Is this still an unresolved issue?

Thanks.

Mark

Message sent to [email protected], Ralph Ronnquist <[email protected]>:

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Subject: bug#99: Acknowledgement (devuan-installer: the installed devuan system is not fully accessible)
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Here's an update on Beowulf. Thanks first of all for bringing back the
PC speaker beep for the boot menu in the Beowulf netinst iso.

I thought lightdm wouldn't be a long term option, since in the
original gitlab discussion this bug was migrated from centurian Dan
had indicated that lightdm wouldn't be a long term option. I'm glad to
see that lightdm is still available in Beowulf. I'm also glad to see
the mate desktop in Beowulf is installed with lightdm and
lightdm-gtk-greeter by default. That's the good news, now for the bad
news.

1. There are problems when attempting to do a Beowulf install with
speech in a VirtualBox guest. On one of my machines, the guest crashed
totally. I don't know what was on the screen, the guest just became
unresponsive to attempted keyboard input when I started the install
with speech using the "s" option from the boot menu, and after I
attempted to set speakup volume and rate. On another guest, only the
software speech died, and I was still able to activate a hardware
synthesizer, and do the install that way. The good news is that this
seems to be a problem in debian as well:

<http://linux-speakup.org/pipermail/speakup/2020-March/062176.html>

So, this should be resolved once it is fixed upstream. There is a
patch which might fix this being backported to the 4.19.x kernels:

<http://linux-speakup.org/pipermail/speakup/2020-March/062166.html>

2. The other issue is still with lightdm, and this is a two part
issue. The first part is that after a fresh Beowulf install, orca
doesn't speak at the login screen. It seems that orca has trouble
initializing. I don't have access to the machine where I did the
install, so I'll reply again with the log file. On my regular install,
which is a minimal Ascii install upgraded to Beowulf, orca does in
fact talk at the login screen. I'm still trying to track down why it
works on my upgraded regular install, but doesn't work on a fresh
one. Like I said, I'll reply again with a log file when I have access
to that machine in a few hours.

The second problem with orca not speaking is after loging in through
lightdm a "couldn't register with accessibility bus" message appears
in $HOME/.xsession-errors. This means that orca also can't register
with the accessibility bus, so there is no speech in the GUI. When
running startx by hand, orca does in fact come up, and works just
fine. I started a thread to try to work out a solution to the problem
at:

<https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20200325.043908.484afc83.en.html>

That's all for now. I'm glad to see that progress is being made with
accessibility in Beowulf. I'll be back with the orca not starting in
lightdm log
file I mentioned earlier.

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From: "Devuan bug Tracking System" <[email protected]>
To: Gregory Nowak <[email protected]>
Subject: bug#99: Info received (bug#99: Acknowledgement (devuan-installer:
 the installed devuan system is not fully accessible))
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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Reply-To: [email protected]
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 23:03:05 +0000

Thank you for the additional information you have supplied regarding
this bug report.

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If you wish to submit further information on this problem, please
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Please do not send mail to [email protected] unless you wish
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--=20
99: https://bugs.devuan.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D99
Devuan Bug Tracking System
Contact [email protected] with problems

Message sent to [email protected], Ralph Ronnquist <[email protected]>:

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I'm updating this bug as promised. I'm leaving out the promised log
file though, since I figured out a solution to the first issue, and
Mark provided the solution to the second lightdm issue in the dng
thread I linked to previously.

1. The first issue was that orca didn't speak on the lightdm login
   screen on a fresh install, but does speak on my regular install
   which is Ascii upgraded to Beowulf. In the fresh install, on a
   hunch, I ran:

apt-get purge lightdm lightdm-gtk-greeter

That removed lightdm, lightdm-gtk-greeter, and task-mate-desktop. It
also brought in some xterm packages. I than ran:

apt-get install lightdm lightdm-gtk-greeter task-mate-desktop

which installed those three packages, and removed the xterm packages
which were installed when I purged the lightdm packages earlier.

I than rebooted, and got speech from orca at the login screen. I won't
pretend to know why purging the lightdm packages and installing them
again works. Oh, I almost forgot. In order for orca to speak at the
lightdm login screen, the user lightdm needs to be added to the audio
group, which it isn't on a fresh install right now.

2. The other issue is that after logging in from lightdm, orca didn't
   come up, and couldn't connect to accessibility bus errors were
   logged. The solution Mark pointed to is to set

xserver-share=false

in /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf. I think that does it for the lightdm
issues.

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From: "Devuan bug Tracking System" <[email protected]>
To: Gregory Nowak <[email protected]>
Subject: bug#99: Info received (bug#99: Acknowledgement (devuan-installer:
 the installed devuan system is not fully accessible))
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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Reply-To: [email protected]
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2020 04:03:04 +0000

Thank you for the additional information you have supplied regarding
this bug report.

This is an automatically generated reply to let you know your message
has been received.

Your message is being forwarded to the package maintainers and other
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Your message has been sent to the package maintainer(s):
 Ralph Ronnquist <[email protected]>

If you wish to submit further information on this problem, please
send it to [email protected].

Please do not send mail to [email protected] unless you wish
to report a problem with the Bug-tracking system.

--=20
99: https://bugs.devuan.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D99
Devuan Bug Tracking System
Contact [email protected] with problems

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Subject: Clone 99 for lightdm
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clone 99 -1
reassign -1 lightdm
retitle -1 lightm: orca is silent as "couldn't register with accessibility bus"
thanks

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From: "Devuan bug Tracking System" <[email protected]>
To: Gregory Nowak <[email protected]>
Subject: bug#99: marked as done (devuan-installer: the installed devuan
 system is not fully accessible)
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Your message dated Sun, 26 Jul 2020 16:58:03 -0700
with message-id <[email protected]>
and subject line closing bug, pending issues in separate bugs
has caused the Devuan bug report #99,
regarding devuan-installer: the installed devuan system is not fully access=
ible
to be marked as done.

This means that you claim that the problem has been dealt with.
If this is not the case it is now your responsibility to reopen the
bug report if necessary, and/or fix the problem forthwith.

(NB: If you are a system administrator and have no idea what this
message is talking about, this may indicate a serious mail system
misconfiguration somewhere. Please contact [email protected]
immediately.)


--=20
99: https://bugs.devuan.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D99
Devuan Bug Tracking System
Contact [email protected] with problems

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From: Gregory Nowak <[email protected]>
To: Devuan Bug Tracking System <[email protected]>
Subject: devuan-installer: the installed devuan system is not fully accessible
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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Package: devuan-installer
Severity: important

Dear Maintainer,
this is a migration of:
<https://git.devuan.org/devuan-infrastructure/Installer_Feedback/issues/3>

When the option to install with speech synthesis is chosen by pressing s and enter at the boot prompt, the resulting installed system isn't fully accessible if
the user chose to install using the default devuan desktop environment. Specifically, because the default session manager is slim, the orca screen reader doesn't
activate at the GUI login screen. This is true on both i386, and amd64.

Installing lightdm and lightdm-gtk-greeter is still a useable option in jessie, but I understand that will not be the case in the future. The only other solution in this
+case for now is for the user to run startx by hand to get a GUI console. Another option is to login without speech using slim, once a sighted person has described the login screen, and the blind user has a routine worked out which key strokes to enter, and when in that routine to type in the user name and password. This solution is not ideal, since it requires assistance initially.


-- System Information:
Distributor ID:	Devuan
Description:	Devuan GNU/Linux 1.0 (jessie)
Release:	1.0
Codename:	jessie
Architecture: x86_64

Kernel: Linux 3.16.0-4-amd64 (SMP w/4 CPU cores)
Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash
Init: sysvinit (via /sbin/init)

------------=_1595809082-8953-0
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From: Gregory Nowak <[email protected]>
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Accessibility in devuan has come a long way since the 1.0 release. The
packages necessary for an installed devuan system to be accessible are
part of the installed system as of devuan 3.0. The issues still
outstanding are bugs 494 and 496. Given all of this, I am closing bug
99; it has served its purpose.
------------=_1595809082-8953-0--

Message sent:

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From: "Devuan bug Tracking System" <[email protected]>
To: Gregory Nowak <[email protected]>
Subject: bug#99 closed by Gregory Nowak <[email protected]> (closing bug,
 pending issues in separate bugs)
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
 <[email protected]>
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This is an automatic notification regarding your bug report
which was filed against the devuan-installer package:

#99: devuan-installer: the installed devuan system is not fully accessible

It has been closed by Gregory Nowak <[email protected]>.

Their explanation is attached below along with your original report.
If this explanation is unsatisfactory and you have not received a
better one in a separate message then please contact Gregory Nowak <greg@gr=
egn.net> by
replying to this email.


--=20
99: https://bugs.devuan.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D99
Devuan Bug Tracking System
Contact [email protected] with problems

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Accessibility in devuan has come a long way since the 1.0 release. The
packages necessary for an installed devuan system to be accessible are
part of the installed system as of devuan 3.0. The issues still
outstanding are bugs 494 and 496. Given all of this, I am closing bug
99; it has served its purpose.
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From: Gregory Nowak <[email protected]>
To: Devuan Bug Tracking System <[email protected]>
Subject: devuan-installer: the installed devuan system is not fully accessible
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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Package: devuan-installer
Severity: important

Dear Maintainer,
this is a migration of:
<https://git.devuan.org/devuan-infrastructure/Installer_Feedback/issues/3>

When the option to install with speech synthesis is chosen by pressing s and enter at the boot prompt, the resulting installed system isn't fully accessible if
the user chose to install using the default devuan desktop environment. Specifically, because the default session manager is slim, the orca screen reader doesn't
activate at the GUI login screen. This is true on both i386, and amd64.

Installing lightdm and lightdm-gtk-greeter is still a useable option in jessie, but I understand that will not be the case in the future. The only other solution in this
+case for now is for the user to run startx by hand to get a GUI console. Another option is to login without speech using slim, once a sighted person has described the login screen, and the blind user has a routine worked out which key strokes to enter, and when in that routine to type in the user name and password. This solution is not ideal, since it requires assistance initially.


-- System Information:
Distributor ID:	Devuan
Description:	Devuan GNU/Linux 1.0 (jessie)
Release:	1.0
Codename:	jessie
Architecture: x86_64

Kernel: Linux 3.16.0-4-amd64 (SMP w/4 CPU cores)
Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash
Init: sysvinit (via /sbin/init)

------------=_1595809090-8953-1--