Devuan logs - #813, boring messages

Message sent to [email protected], [email protected]:

Subject: bug#813: netcat-traditional: Debian Bug#1056980: netcat-traditional: upgrade to 1.10-48 fails (postinst
Reply-To: Arthur Marsh <[email protected]>, [email protected]
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From: Arthur Marsh <[email protected]>
To: Devuan Bug Tracking System <[email protected]>
Message-ID: <170169630315.18258.8836205405161711723.reportbug@localhost>
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2023 23:55:03 +1030

Package: netcat-traditional
Version: 1.10-48
Severity: normal

Dear Maintainer,

*** Reporter, please consider answering these questions, where appropriate ***

   * What led up to the situation?

Attempting to upgrade netcat-traditional 1.10-48 on unstable in Devuan.

   * What exactly did you do (or not do) that was effective (or
     ineffective)?

Found Debian Bug#1056980 marked as wontfix.

   * What was the outcome of this action?

Frustration.

   * What outcome did you expect instead?

A working transition.

*** End of the template - remove these template lines ***


-- System Information:
Distributor ID:	Devuan
Description:	Devuan GNU/Linux 6 (excalibur/ceres)
Release:	6
Codename:	excalibur ceres
Architecture: x86_64

Kernel: Linux 6.7.0-rc3+ (SMP w/4 CPU threads; PREEMPT)
Locale: LANG=en_AU.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_AU.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8), LANGUAGE=en_GB
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash
Init: sysvinit (via /sbin/init)

Versions of packages netcat-traditional depends on:
ii  libc6  2.38-3

netcat-traditional recommends no packages.

netcat-traditional suggests no packages.

-- no debconf information

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From: "Devuan bug Tracking System" <[email protected]>
To: Arthur Marsh <[email protected]>
Subject: bug#813: Acknowledgement (netcat-traditional: Debian Bug#1056980:
 netcat-traditional: upgrade to 1.10-48 fails (postinst)
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <170169630315.18258.8836205405161711723.reportbug@localhost>
X-Devuan-PR-Message: ack 813
X-Devuan-PR-Package: netcat-traditional
Reply-To: [email protected]
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2023 13:28:02 +0000

Thank you for filing a new bug report with Devuan.

You can follow progress on this bug here: 813: https://bugs.devuan.org/cgi/=
bugreport.cgi?bug=3D813.

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--=20
813: https://bugs.devuan.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D813
Devuan Bug Tracking System
Contact [email protected] with problems

Message sent to [email protected], [email protected]:

Subject: bug#813: [devuan-dev] bug#813: netcat-traditional: Debian Bug#1056980: netcat-traditional: upgrade to 1.10-48 fails (postinst
Reply-To: B Stack <[email protected]>, [email protected]
Resent-From: B Stack <[email protected]>
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From: B Stack <[email protected]>
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2023 08:33:30 -0500
Message-ID: <CABSMGam0bLu-5RQVnJ-=UAJQHSZW7WJUZk3YDu7q815DaVUa4w@mail.gmail.com>
To: Arthur Marsh <[email protected]>, [email protected], 
	devuan developers internal list <[email protected]>
Cc: Devuan Bug Tracking System <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Of course this is related to usrmerge in our upstream distro, and is
solved once you `apt-get install usrmerge` which was blocked for me
until I also ran:

    sudo rm -f /lib/udev/rules.d/99-libsane1.rules
/lib/udev/rules.d/60-libsane1.rules /lib/udev/hwdb.d/20-sane.hwdb

For some reason. Now of course these steps don't actually fix
netcat-traditional itself for a non-merged system, but it does allow
the package to finish installing.

--
B. Stack

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From: "Devuan bug Tracking System" <[email protected]>
To: B Stack <[email protected]>
Subject: bug#813: Info received ([devuan-dev] bug#813: netcat-traditional:
 Debian Bug#1056980: netcat-traditional: upgrade to 1.10-48 fails
 (postinst)
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <CABSMGam0bLu-5RQVnJ-=UAJQHSZW7WJUZk3YDu7q815DaVUa4w@mail.gmail.com>
X-Devuan-PR-Message: ack-info 813
X-Devuan-PR-Package: netcat-traditional
Reply-To: [email protected]
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2023 13:36:02 +0000

Thank you for the additional information you have supplied regarding
this bug report.

This is an automatically generated reply to let you know your message
has been received.

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--=20
813: https://bugs.devuan.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D813
Devuan Bug Tracking System
Contact [email protected] with problems

Message sent to [email protected], [email protected]:

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Subject: bug#813: Fwd: Re: [devuan-dev] bug#813: netcat-traditional: Debian Bug#1056980: netcat-traditional: upgrade to 1.10-48 fails (postinst
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
From: Svante Signell <[email protected]>
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Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2023 15:28:48 +0100
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Subject: Re: [devuan-dev] bug#813: netcat-traditional: Debian Bug#1056980:
 netcat-traditional: upgrade to 1.10-48 fails (postinst
From: Svante Signell <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 2023-12-04 at 08:33 -0500, B Stack wrote:
> Of course this is related to usrmerge in our upstream distro, and is
> solved once you `apt-get install usrmerge` which was blocked for me
> until I also ran:
>=20
> =A0=A0=A0 sudo rm -f /lib/udev/rules.d/99-libsane1.rules
> /lib/udev/rules.d/60-libsane1.rules /lib/udev/hwdb.d/20-sane.hwdb
>=20
> For some reason. Now of course these steps don't actually fix
> netcat-traditional itself for a non-merged system, but it does allow
> the package to finish installing.

You should not be forced to install usrmerge in a Devuan system. That packa=
ge
will be forked by Devuan.

FYI: You can always revert the usrmerge installation with dpkg-fsys-usrunme=
ss!


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From: "Devuan bug Tracking System" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: bug#813: Info received (Fwd: Re: [devuan-dev] bug#813:
 netcat-traditional: Debian Bug#1056980: netcat-traditional: upgrade to
 1.10-48 fails (postinst)
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
X-Devuan-PR-Message: ack-info 813
X-Devuan-PR-Package: netcat-traditional
Reply-To: [email protected]
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2023 14:30:04 +0000

Thank you for the additional information you have supplied regarding
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--=20
813: https://bugs.devuan.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D813
Devuan Bug Tracking System
Contact [email protected] with problems

Message sent to [email protected], [email protected]:

X-Loop: [email protected]
Subject: bug#813: Fwd: Re: [devuan-dev] bug#813: netcat-traditional: Debian Bug#1056980: netcat-traditional: upgrade to 1.10-48 fails (postinst
Reply-To: Mark Hindley <[email protected]>, [email protected]
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Control: reassign -1 devuan-project
Control: forcemerge 810 -1
Control: affects -1 netcat-traditional

On Mon, Dec 04, 2023 at 03:28:48PM +0100, Svante Signell wrote:
> You should not be forced to install usrmerge in a Devuan system. That package
> will be forked by Devuan.

Svante,

I am not sure either of these assertions is agreed Devuan policy.

Arthur,

Installing usrmerge should fix this which Devuan has inherited (however
unwelcome that may be) from Debian. See[1] for a fuller explanation.

Reassigning and merging.

Mark

[1]  https://bugs.devuan.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=810#15

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From: Mark Hindley <[email protected]>
To: [email protected], [email protected], Arthur Marsh <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: bug#813: Fwd: Re: [devuan-dev] bug#813: netcat-traditional:
 Debian Bug#1056980: netcat-traditional: upgrade to 1.10-48 fails (postinst
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Control: reassign -1 devuan-project
Control: forcemerge 810 -1
Control: affects -1 netcat-traditional

On Mon, Dec 04, 2023 at 03:28:48PM +0100, Svante Signell wrote:
> You should not be forced to install usrmerge in a Devuan system. That package
> will be forked by Devuan.

Svante,

I am not sure either of these assertions is agreed Devuan policy.

Arthur,

Installing usrmerge should fix this which Devuan has inherited (however
unwelcome that may be) from Debian. See[1] for a fuller explanation.

Reassigning and merging.

Mark

[1]  https://bugs.devuan.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=810#15

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Subject: Re: bug#813: Fwd: Re: [devuan-dev] bug#813: netcat-traditional:
 Debian Bug#1056980: netcat-traditional: upgrade to 1.10-48 fails (postinst
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Control: reassign -1 devuan-project
Control: forcemerge 810 -1
Control: affects -1 netcat-traditional

On Mon, Dec 04, 2023 at 03:28:48PM +0100, Svante Signell wrote:
> You should not be forced to install usrmerge in a Devuan system. That package
> will be forked by Devuan.

Svante,

I am not sure either of these assertions is agreed Devuan policy.

Arthur,

Installing usrmerge should fix this which Devuan has inherited (however
unwelcome that may be) from Debian. See[1] for a fuller explanation.

Reassigning and merging.

Mark

[1]  https://bugs.devuan.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=810#15

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Subject: Re: bug#813: Fwd: Re: [devuan-dev] bug#813: netcat-traditional:
 Debian Bug#1056980: netcat-traditional: upgrade to 1.10-48 fails (postinst
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Control: reassign -1 devuan-project
Control: forcemerge 810 -1
Control: affects -1 netcat-traditional

On Mon, Dec 04, 2023 at 03:28:48PM +0100, Svante Signell wrote:
> You should not be forced to install usrmerge in a Devuan system. That package
> will be forked by Devuan.

Svante,

I am not sure either of these assertions is agreed Devuan policy.

Arthur,

Installing usrmerge should fix this which Devuan has inherited (however
unwelcome that may be) from Debian. See[1] for a fuller explanation.

Reassigning and merging.

Mark

[1]  https://bugs.devuan.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=810#15

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To: [email protected], [email protected], Arthur Marsh <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: bug#813: Fwd: Re: [devuan-dev] bug#813: netcat-traditional:
 Debian Bug#1056980: netcat-traditional: upgrade to 1.10-48 fails (postinst
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Control: reassign -1 devuan-project
Control: forcemerge 810 -1
Control: affects -1 netcat-traditional

On Mon, Dec 04, 2023 at 03:28:48PM +0100, Svante Signell wrote:
> You should not be forced to install usrmerge in a Devuan system. That package
> will be forked by Devuan.

Svante,

I am not sure either of these assertions is agreed Devuan policy.

Arthur,

Installing usrmerge should fix this which Devuan has inherited (however
unwelcome that may be) from Debian. See[1] for a fuller explanation.

Reassigning and merging.

Mark

[1]  https://bugs.devuan.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=810#15

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Subject: Re: bug#813: Fwd: Re: [devuan-dev] bug#813: netcat-traditional:
 Debian Bug#1056980: netcat-traditional: upgrade to 1.10-48 fails (postinst
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Control: reassign -1 devuan-project
Control: forcemerge 810 -1
Control: affects -1 netcat-traditional

On Mon, Dec 04, 2023 at 03:28:48PM +0100, Svante Signell wrote:
> You should not be forced to install usrmerge in a Devuan system. That package
> will be forked by Devuan.

Svante,

I am not sure either of these assertions is agreed Devuan policy.

Arthur,

Installing usrmerge should fix this which Devuan has inherited (however
unwelcome that may be) from Debian. See[1] for a fuller explanation.

Reassigning and merging.

Mark

[1]  https://bugs.devuan.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=810#15

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Subject: Re: bug#813: Fwd: Re: [devuan-dev] bug#813: netcat-traditional:
 Debian Bug#1056980: netcat-traditional: upgrade to 1.10-48 fails (postinst
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Control: reassign -1 devuan-project
Control: forcemerge 810 -1
Control: affects -1 netcat-traditional

On Mon, Dec 04, 2023 at 03:28:48PM +0100, Svante Signell wrote:
> You should not be forced to install usrmerge in a Devuan system. That package
> will be forked by Devuan.

Svante,

I am not sure either of these assertions is agreed Devuan policy.

Arthur,

Installing usrmerge should fix this which Devuan has inherited (however
unwelcome that may be) from Debian. See[1] for a fuller explanation.

Reassigning and merging.

Mark

[1]  https://bugs.devuan.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=810#15

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Subject: Re: bug#812: Firmware is not found by kernel anymore as it is moved
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Control: reassign -1 devuan-project
Control: forcemerge 810 -1
Control: affects -1 firmware-realtek

Klaus,

On Mon, Dec 04, 2023 at 09:57:17AM +0100, Klaus Ethgen wrote:
> Package: firmware-realtek
> Version: 20230625-1
> Severity: critical
> 
> After update from 20230515-3, the kernel is no longer able to find the
> firmware as debian moved it to /usr.

As you have identified, this is a result of Debian's implementation of merged
/usr.

Reassigning and merging.

Mark

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To: Klaus Ethgen <[email protected]>, [email protected]
Subject: Re: bug#812: Firmware is not found by kernel anymore as it is moved
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Control: reassign -1 devuan-project
Control: forcemerge 810 -1
Control: affects -1 firmware-realtek

Klaus,

On Mon, Dec 04, 2023 at 09:57:17AM +0100, Klaus Ethgen wrote:
> Package: firmware-realtek
> Version: 20230625-1
> Severity: critical
> 
> After update from 20230515-3, the kernel is no longer able to find the
> firmware as debian moved it to /usr.

As you have identified, this is a result of Debian's implementation of merged
/usr.

Reassigning and merging.

Mark

Message sent to [email protected], Devuan Developers <[email protected]>:

X-Loop: [email protected]
Subject: bug#813: Debian maintainers deliberately breaks unmerged systems: Was: Re: bug#813:...
Reply-To: [email protected], [email protected]
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
From: Svante Signell <[email protected]>
To: Mark Hindley <[email protected]>, [email protected], Arthur Marsh
	 <[email protected]>
Cc: Devuan dng ml <[email protected]>, Klaus Ethgen <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2023 16:31:39 +0100
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On Tue, 2023-12-05 at 12:53 +0000, Mark Hindley wrote:
> Control: reassign -1 devuan-project
> Control: forcemerge 810 -1
> Control: affects -1 netcat-traditional
>=20
> On Mon, Dec 04, 2023 at 03:28:48PM +0100, Svante Signell wrote:
> > You should not be forced to install usrmerge in a Devuan system. That
> > package will be forked by Devuan.
>=20
> Svante,
>=20
> I am not sure either of these assertions is agreed Devuan policy.
>=20

Maybe I should have written "will (probably) be forked by Devuan"
Nevertheless, reassigning the bugs 810, 812 and 813 to devuan-project means
what? Do we continue the discussion or is the project decision that all pac=
kages
coming from Debian showing this foul play will silently be hidden by a
recommendation to install usrmerge on Devuan/Ceres/Excalibur?

In my opinion this is to give up on their dictatorship! See further comment=
s
below!

> Arthur,
>=20
> Installing usrmerge should fix this which Devuan has inherited (however
> unwelcome that may be) from Debian. See[1] for a fuller explanation.
>=20
> Reassigning and merging.
>=20
> Mark
>=20
> [1]=A0 https://bugs.devuan.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D810#15
>=20
Quoting from bug=3D810#26 and #31:

bug=3D810#26
> > Believe me that I think this Debian exercise is a waste of time, driven=
 by
> > systemd dogma. However, for Devaun to attempt to fork every Debian pack=
age
> would
> > just waste even more time. I do not believe this to be worthwhile.
>=20
> Yes, that is a disaster... My hope was, that at least Devuan is able to
> mitigate it and keeping up the good quality that Debian was before
> systemd.
>=20
> However, I also see that there seems to be only few persons behind to do
> the work.
>=20
> > I imagine you will suggest forking wpasupplicant, however that one pack=
age
> is not the fundamental issue here. Most, maybe all Debian packages are go=
ing
> to have their binaries moved in the next few months and for Devuan to res=
ist
> by forking would be unsustainable.
>=20
> It might be needed to fork the distribution completely. Well, at least
> with the main packages. There could still be some compatibility left for
> contrib and non-free. I mean, debian was small too in the past. Why not
> start from scratch? (You even don't need to start without anything)
> Maybe it is time for a cut.
>=20
> I try to fix packages myself as I did for openssh[0], pcre2[1] and since
> today pcsc-lite[2]. And I have now a massive ansible role to fix all the
> debian bugs as well as nagios check for broken libraries that should be
> in /lib.
>=20
> > I believe you have two options (I fear you will find neither palatable,=
 for
> > which I apologise):-
> >=20
> >  - Install Daedalus and do not upgrade beyond that.
> >=20
> >  - Install the usrmerge package.
>=20
> The last one will never be an option for me! Before that I would destroy
> all my computers first or migrate to windows! (What, if you know me, I
> would never do.)
>=20
> The first would be a solution only up to when the support for that
> distribution ends.
>=20

bug=3D810#31
> >=20
> > > > Believe me that I think this Debian exercise is a waste of time,
> > > > driven by systemd dogma. However, for Devaun to attempt to fork
> > > > every Debian package would just waste even more time. I do not
> > > > believe this to be worthwhile.
> > >=20
> >=20
> > It seems to be around 40 packages according to Lorenzo, not too many. I
> > volunteer to adopt 5-10 of them. Just let me know.
> >=20
> > Yes, that is a disaster... My hope was, that at least Devuan is able
> > to mitigate it and keeping up the good quality that Debian was before
> > systemd.
> >=20
> > However, I also see that there seems to be only few persons behind to
> > do the work.
>=20
> Count me in! If we won't resist Debian brainless merged /usr, I'll
> have no motivation to create a Devuan Port of GNU/Hurd.

> > It might be needed to fork the distribution completely. Well, at
> > least with the main packages. There could still be some compatibility
> > left for contrib and non-free. I mean, debian was small too in the
> > past. Why not start from scratch? (You even don't need to start
> > without anything) Maybe it is time for a cut.
> >=20
>=20
> Yes, please!
>=20
> I recently moverd all my desktops and laptops to Devuan/Daedalus, and
> would prefer to continue with Devuan!
>=20
> Otherwise, I would switch to Guix if Devuan no longer is an
> alternative. Never again adopt Debian/RedHat madness!

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X-Loop: [email protected]
From: "Devuan bug Tracking System" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: bug#813: Info received (Debian maintainers deliberately breaks
 unmerged systems: Was: Re: bug#813:...)
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
X-Devuan-PR-Message: ack-info 813
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Reply-To: [email protected]
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2023 15:32:03 +0000

Thank you for the additional information you have supplied regarding
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--=20
813: https://bugs.devuan.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D813
Devuan Bug Tracking System
Contact [email protected] with problems

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From: Mark Hindley <[email protected]>
To: Svante Signell <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected], Arthur Marsh <[email protected]>, Devuan dng ml <[email protected]>, Klaus Ethgen <[email protected]>
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On Tue, Dec 05, 2023 at 04:31:39PM +0100, Svante Signell wrote:
> Maybe I should have written "will (probably) be forked by Devuan"
> Nevertheless, reassigning the bugs 810, 812 and 813 to devuan-project means
> what?

It means that, depspite the specifc package issues, we have to decide how to
handle it for the whole project. It will not scale to do this on a per-package
basis.

> Do we continue the discussion or is the project decision that all packages
> coming from Debian showing this foul play will silently be hidden by a
> recommendation to install usrmerge on Devuan/Ceres/Excalibur?

I think that was the reluctant conclusion we came to last time it was
discussed. But I am prepared to be corrected.

Mark

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X-Loop: [email protected]
From: "Devuan bug Tracking System" <[email protected]>
To: Mark Hindley <[email protected]>
Subject: bug#813: Info received (Debian maintainers deliberately breaks
 unmerged systems: Was: Re: bug#813:...)
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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X-Devuan-PR-Message: ack-info 813
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Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2023 16:08:02 +0000

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--=20
813: https://bugs.devuan.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D813
Devuan Bug Tracking System
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To: [email protected]
Subject: unmerging 810
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unmerge 810
thanks

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reopen 812 
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affects 812 - wpasupplicant
thanks

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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
From: Svante Signell <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Cc: Debian Control Server <[email protected]>, [email protected]
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2023 16:15:01 +0100
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reopen 1056980 =20
severity 1056980 serious =20
tags 1056980 patch =20
thanks

Hello,

Reopening this bug due to a deliberate attempt to fool the users: Either yo=
u move binaries _and_ configuration files=20
to /usr/bin or explicitely depend on usrmerge. And closing this bug as wont=
fix is not nice.

I've modified netcat-traditional.postinst on both usrmerged and non-usrmerg=
ed systems without problems. So your second comment b) in
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D1056980#15
is definitely false:

From: Chris Hofstaedtler <[[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])> =20
...
No, changing the update-alternatives call is =20
a) not necessary on /usr-merged systems, =20
b) will break on these.

No the system did not break!

Yes, I have read [https://wiki.debian.org/UsrMerge](https://wiki.debian.org=
/UsrMerge) =20

And found: =20
! Please suspend further moves temporarily. The effects of moves cause more=
 problems than anticipated=20
people are working to understand and solve them. Exceptions: Continue to pe=
rform moves that fix RC bugs
(e.g. dh_installsystemd or systemd.pc issues) and DEP17P7 mitigations for u=
dev rules.

And:
Do not update calls to update-alternatives:
- Even if you move e.g. /bin/more to /usr/bin/more, do not change the locat=
ion used in the=20
  update-alternatives invocation.
- If you add new alternatives, install them to /usr if possible.=20

And:
P4: Even when changing all aliased paths from / to /usr, you must not chang=
e the paths passed to update-alternatives
invocations that already existed in bookworm. The current plan is to keep e=
xisting alternatives aliased as a legacy
forever and add new alternatives without aliasing.=20

Who wrote this? The question is why?? All changes to packages moving files =
to /usr should also move _all_=20
corresponding configuration files to, or add an explicit dependency on usrm=
erge!

Thanks!

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On Fri, 2023-12-08 at 16:15 +0100, Svante Signell wrote:
> reopen 1056980
> severity 1056980 serious
> tags 1056980 patch
> thanks

Sorry, forgot the patch!


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Hi Svante,

On Fri, Dec 08, 2023 at 04:15:01PM +0100, Svante Signell wrote:
> Reopening this bug due to a deliberate attempt to fool the users: Either you move binaries _and_ configuration files 
> to /usr/bin or explicitely depend on usrmerge. And closing this bug as wontfix is not nice.

This sounds simple to you, but it really is not. Effectively you are
asking us to do one of three things:

a. Not move the binaries
b. Move the binaries and alternatives
c. Depends on usrmerge

Let me decline all of them with reason.

a. Doing this would imply a permanent symlink vs directory conflict for
   /bin and also causes us to continue experiencing aliasing-related
   issues. We've ruled this out early on.

b. Moving alternatives is difficult. It actually is on two levels. For
   one thing, the alternative has a name and a location. If you move the
   location of an alternative, all providers must move it at the same
   time or bad things will happen. On a technical level, this is very
   difficult to achieve and hence we recommend not doing it. Then you
   can consider moving an actual provider. Unfortunately, that path has
   become API of the alternatives system, so in moving it we break
   integrations (ansible/chef/propellor/puppet/etc). In all of this
   migration, we must ensure that user configuration is not lost. So
   we've opted to not solve this for now. I invite you to present a
   solution, but the solution you gave falls short on a number of
   problems mentioned here. So arguably wontfix is maybe too strong, but
   in effect that doesn't change what we'll be doing here: keeping
   alternatives aliased (at least for now).

c. usrmerge already is essential since bookworm. Therefore, there is an
   implicit dependency on it already and spelling out such a dependency
   is redundant. We actually want to get rid of the package before too
   long, so adding dependencies on it would make that harder to do.

> I've modified netcat-traditional.postinst on both usrmerged and non-usrmerged systems without problems. So your second comment b) in
> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1056980#15
> is definitely false:
> 
> From: Chris Hofstaedtler <[[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])>  
> ...
> No, changing the update-alternatives call is  
> a) not necessary on /usr-merged systems,  
> b) will break on these.
> 
> No the system did not break!

Yeah, I understand it does not break your things, but I identified that
it does break other things.

That said, it's actually great to have people look into options for
moving alternatives. Keeping them aliased definitely causes unfortunate
surprises to end users, so being able to move them eventually would be
cool really. We just haven't found a good way to do it yet. What we lack
here is people coming up with a good solution and if you want to be the
one, then yes, go for it! Though please don't upload it right away and
rather discuss your solution about the alternatives preferably on
[email protected] first. Let me caution though that I very
much doubt there to be a solution that does not involve changing dpkg,
because not having a backwards-compatibility mechanism would annoy a lot
of devops people.

> Yes, I have read [https://wiki.debian.org/UsrMerge](https://wiki.debian.org/UsrMerge)  
> 
> And found:  
> ! Please suspend further moves temporarily. The effects of moves cause more problems than anticipated 
> people are working to understand and solve them. Exceptions: Continue to perform moves that fix RC bugs
> (e.g. dh_installsystemd or systemd.pc issues) and DEP17P7 mitigations for udev rules.
> 
> And:
> Do not update calls to update-alternatives:
> - Even if you move e.g. /bin/more to /usr/bin/more, do not change the location used in the 
>   update-alternatives invocation.
> - If you add new alternatives, install them to /usr if possible. 
> 
> And:
> P4: Even when changing all aliased paths from / to /usr, you must not change the paths passed to update-alternatives
> invocations that already existed in bookworm. The current plan is to keep existing alternatives aliased as a legacy
> forever and add new alternatives without aliasing. 
> 
> Who wrote this? The question is why?? All changes to packages moving files to /usr should also move _all_ 
> corresponding configuration files to, or add an explicit dependency on usrmerge!

I wrote this! I hope the reasoning is answered given the above now.

In the end though, what I wrote doesn't change much here and I am
basically confirming Christian and Luca.  netcat-traditional cannot do
anything about this at this time. This bug is not actionable
unfortunately. I am thus closing it. Please don't continue on the netcat
side. It's a distro-wide problem and should go to [email protected].

Thanks for your understanding

Helmut

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X-Loop: [email protected]
From: "Devuan bug Tracking System" <[email protected]>
To: Helmut Grohne <[email protected]>
Subject: bug#813: Info received (Bug#1056980: Reopen 1056980)
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2023 20:44:02 +0000

Thank you for the additional information you have supplied regarding
this bug report.

This is an automatically generated reply to let you know your message
has been received.

Your message is being forwarded to the package maintainers and other
interested parties for their attention; they will reply in due course.

Your message has been sent to the package maintainer(s):
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If you wish to submit further information on this problem, please
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813: https://bugs.devuan.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D813
Devuan Bug Tracking System
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From: Mark Hindley <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: reassign 826 to devuan-project, forcibly merging 812 826, affects 812
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2024 11:52:00 +0000
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>

reassign 826 devuan-project 
forcemerge 812 826
affects 812 kmod
thanks

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From: Mark Hindley <[email protected]>
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Subject: reassign 826 to devuan-project, forcibly merging 812 826, affects 812
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2024 11:52:00 +0000
User-Agent: devscripts bts/2.23.4+deb12u1
Message-ID: <[email protected]>

reassign 826 devuan-project 
forcemerge 812 826
affects 812 kmod
thanks

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From: Mark Hindley <[email protected]>
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Subject: reassign 826 to devuan-project, forcibly merging 812 826, affects 812
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2024 11:52:00 +0000
User-Agent: devscripts bts/2.23.4+deb12u1
Message-ID: <[email protected]>

reassign 826 devuan-project 
forcemerge 812 826
affects 812 kmod
thanks

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From: Mark Hindley <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: forcibly merging 812 828
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2024 11:53:23 +0000
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forcemerge 812 828
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Subject: forcibly merging 812 828
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2024 11:53:23 +0000
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>

forcemerge 812 828
thanks